Mobileread
Moon+ reader pro idiot guide please
#101  DiapDealer 11-17-2013, 06:59 AM
Where is the "Display like the CSS says to" button? Seriously... I've disabled all CSS overrides in the settings and the text still doesn't display as it's supposed to. Text that's supposed to be indented further than the normal text isn't, and text that's supposed to be smaller than the normal text isn't. Also, text that's supposed to be right-aligned is left-aligned. Some text is supposed to be justified while some is left-aligned (ragged-right), but Moon+ Pro seems to display it ALL justified OR ragged right. It's like it's homogenizing everything and I don't want it to.

I can switch to the "Preview publisher defaults" mode and things are very close to what I want... except the @page margin-top and margin-bottom aren't honored (text runs off the top and bottom of the screen), it "scrolls" in some weird top to bottom way instead of side-to side page turns, and the side-margins can't be tweaked. The paragraph spacing can be reduced, but doing so seems to occasionally override some rather important margin-top css parameters in the process.

I've been through all the settings (and restarted), so unless someone knows some sort of trick... I have to assume that this app is just incapable of showing me the "stock" epub (in a standard side-to-side page turning manner) that I can then tweak just a tiny bit (like the side-margins only). It just seems to take too many formatting "liberties."

Hopefully someone can point out something obvious I've overlooked?
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#102  Faterson 11-17-2013, 10:24 AM
You haven't overlooked anything. That's the way it's supposed to be. EPUB is supposed to be a pliable format, allowing the reader to reformat the text in any way the reader pleases. As opposed to PDF, EPUB is a reader-centric format -- that's why I love it, and that's why I avoid PDF files, which are publisher-centric. If you expect e-reader software to give you 100% of the publisher's formatting, you're bound to get disappointed, regardless of which e-reader app you choose. I love Moon+ Reader precisely for the opposite of what you're looking for: the plentiful layout customisation options on the user's side.
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#103  DiapDealer 11-17-2013, 11:37 AM
Quote Faterson
You haven't overlooked anything. That's the way it's supposed to be. EPUB is supposed to be a pliable format, allowing the reader to reformat the text in any way the reader pleases.
Then it's failed miserably at it's own goal. Because it would please this reader to start with the ebook's own css formatting and then tweak accordingly. Like I do with other apps. Not to start with some app's interpretation of how things should appear and then have to fight tooth and nail just to never quite be able get it exactly the way I want. If it were truly pliable enough to format the text any way I please, I obviously wouldn't be having an issue.

Oh well... thanks for the confirmation that it's not flexible enough to meet my needs. Saves me some time.
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#104  Faterson 11-17-2013, 11:50 AM
Quote DiapDealer
Because it would please this reader to start with the ebook's own css formatting and then tweak accordingly.
Right, but please understand that that's just your personal preference. Many readers (myself included) prefer the exactly opposite approach: they wish, if possible, for a book to instantly look the way they prefer to read their books, instead of having to get to that ideal look manually every time you start reading a new book.

Also, this is not just a Moon+ Reader preference, but I bet that practically all e-reader software behaves in a similar way. Good luck finding an app that gives preference to the publisher mode by default -- it might be a hopeless search for you.
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#105  DiapDealer 11-17-2013, 12:19 PM
Quote Faterson
Right, but please understand that that's just your personal preference. Many readers (myself included) prefer the exactly opposite approach: they wish, if possible, for a book to instantly look the way they prefer to read their books, instead of having to get to that ideal look manually every time you start reading a new book.
Well sure. It's ALL about personal preference, for everyone. Right? I also wish for a book to instantly look the way I prefer with out too much fiddling. It just so happens that what I prefer is the fairly "standard" formatting experience that most ebooks I purchase already conform to fairly well. Moon+ denies me that formatting.

Quote Faterson
Also, this is not just a Moon+ Reader preference, but I bet that practically all e-reader software behaves in a similar way. Good luck finding an app that gives preference to the publisher mode by default -- it might be a hopeless search for you.
You're right. None of them display exactly the same. There's always little quirks. But there's plenty out there that that allow me to start with a "This is how the ebook was created to look" standard and go from there. So it's not a hopeless search. I already have apps that do what I prefer. I just like to check out what else is out there in case anything is better. There was a lot of talk about this one so I checked it out.

No big deal, I just wanted to make sure there wasn't anything obvious I was overlooking to make it do what I want. There's not. Now I know.

Enjoy.
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#106  Faterson 11-17-2013, 02:05 PM
Quote DiapDealer
the fairly "standard" formatting experience that most ebooks I purchase already conform to fairly well.
Really?! My experience is that most e-books, including those sold commercially, are atrociously formatted. Seeing them as set up by their publishers, would likely give me massive headaches, which is why I consider extensive layout customisation options such as those offered by Moon+ Reader to be of primary importance among e-reader app features.

Quote DiapDealer
I already have apps that do what I prefer.
Can you give a few examples of such apps? I might check them out. I have a manually crafted EPUB test file I use to test e-reader apps, which is exactly how I know how rare it is to encounter an app offering "publisher fidelity" by default. Not even market leaders like Kindle do that.
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#107  DiapDealer 11-17-2013, 03:58 PM
I don't want to get into a "my app is better than your app" kind of of thing. That's not my intent. I use Mantano Premium because of all the apps I've tested, it seemed to do the best job of rendering the epub (a well-formed, validated epub with epub2-compliant css) as it was created to be displayed. It's not perfect, there are quirks, but it's in the ballpark. I'm not looking for a totally homogenized reading experience across all books anyway. There are few things I like to be consistent, yes, but other than that. I'm perfectly OK with subtle, stylistic, typographic differences. In fact I encourage it.

I'm all for having the ability to override just about everything and everything a user might conceivably want to customize. I just don't believe all of that extra flexibility should (or needs to) come at the expense of NOT being able to display the epub as its creator intended (should a user desire to do so). That's what I'm up against with Moon+.

Quote Faterson
Really?! My experience is that most e-books, including those sold commercially, are atrociously formatted. Seeing them as set up by their publishers, would likely give me massive headaches
That's not been my experience. Most of the stuff I buy is relatively close to what I want (no extra paragraph spacing, first-line indent on paragraphs). The only things I typically might want to override are top & bottom page margins, left-right page margins, and the basic font. If it's anything more atrocious than that, I'm going to edit the ePub in question and "fix" the atrocities anyway. The problem I have, is that after I go to the trouble of fixing an ePub and editing it to be the exact way I want it (a validated, compliant, nothing fancy, cleanly formatted epub mind you), Moon+ seems incapable of displaying it the way I intend the ePub to render. Many other epub reading apps (including ADE or most other RMSDK-based apps/devices) are able to do a decent job of rendering it as it was intended.

I don't care if people want to override anything and everything they want in an epub to customize their experience--that's great. But it just doesn't make sense to me that an epub reading app would be incapable of displaying a properly formatted epub at least close to the way it's creator intended. Especially when all of the CSS overrides have supposedly been turned off. *shrugs*

So .... Moon+ is clearly not for me. Lesson learned. I suggest we all get back to reading in whatever way makes us most happy. Deal?
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#108  Faterson 11-17-2013, 04:44 PM
Absolutely! Incidentally, I have also purchased Mantano Premium, but for now, have settled for Moon+ Pro as my primary reader on Android, precisely because of its (as I see it) more plentiful layout customisation options. The top feature I was missing in Mantano when I last tested it, if I remember correctly, was paragraph spacing. That setting is a must for me. In contrast, the only missing formatting setting I've seen in Moon+, is the size of the first-line indent. It's only "yes or no" in Moon+, but I'd like to specify its exact size (I prefer 0.35cm). That's regrettable, but not as big a deal as a missing paragraph spacing setting.

By the way, there may be a connection: from debates with app developers, I gather that paragraph spacing is perhaps the most difficult layout setting for a software developer to implement properly in an e-reader app. Which is why you see this formatting option -- crucial to me -- offered in relatively few e-reader apps; it's tough to implement. All sorts of issues with cut-off lines at the bottom or top of the screen can occur. I understand that some apps' ignoring (at least partially) the publisher's CSS, particularly the top and bottom margin specifications inside CSS, might be connected precisely to those apps being able to customise paragraph spacing. In other words: if you don't allow the adjustment of paragraph spacing, it may be easier for you to fully adhere to the publisher's CSS. To me at least, however, the ability to customise paragraph spacing is far more important than 100% adherence to the publisher's CSS; after all, my and the publisher's typographic tastes are likely to differ markedly, anyway.
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#109  davire 11-21-2013, 12:49 PM
Dear Faterson, I have read your discussion with DiapDealer about the possibility or not of reading the epubs in "the way the publisher formatted them".

I would like to use Moon+ Reader, but I'm not able to configure it in order to see the "extra blank space" left between paragraphs when there is a "change of scene" inside a chapter.

If I switch to "Preview mode with publisher formattings" I see this spaces, but in the normal view not.

image »

Do you know how to set Moon+ Reader to see them?

Thanks,
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#110  Faterson 11-21-2013, 02:31 PM
I believe, davire, you may be using spacing between paragraphs that is so huge (looks like a full empty line) that the difference compared to that intentional section break all but disappears. Try reducing your paragraph spacing to, say, an empty half-line (that's the paragraph spacing I prefer); perhaps the section break will become more prominent then?

The trouble with switching away from publisher's mode, is you are essentially thereby giving permission to Moon+ to reformat the entire book according to your customised instructions. This usually works out fine, but in your particular book, it produced an undesirable effect. The flaw could be in Moon+'s parsing of the book, or in non-standard coding of the book itself (just because the section break looks fine in publisher's mode, doesn't guarantee it's coded properly; for example, it could be an amateurish sequence of <br><br><br> tags). Try reducing paragraph spacing in the book to see if it helps any.
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