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Best 10" and up readers?
#61  shalym 06-23-2020, 10:07 AM
Quote JSWolf
Are you saying you prefer worse typesetting? What is it about the look of KePub that you like better? Thing is, ePub looks better.It has kerning, hyphenation, adjustable spaces that can be made smaller if need be, and you can have a smaller line height if you want because you don't have the top of the first line at the bottom of the previous screen.

And I am saying this about a Kobo that has no patches and no hidden features turned on.
Epub looks better to YOU. Not to me. I'm saying that I have never in my life noticed or cared about "kerning". I don't need the adjustable spacing, because I read my book left aligned, so I never see big spaces between words or letters.

I have the line spacing set to the smallest in my kepubs, and I've never seen the top of the first line at the bottom of the previous screen.

I like the ability to zoom in on images, and easily use footnotes. (I don't care about the pop-up footnotes, I'm talking about the ability to easily touch a footnote and not have it turn the page)

Shari
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#62  Hitch 06-23-2020, 11:05 AM
Quote shalym
Epub looks better to YOU. Not to me. I'm saying that I have never in my life noticed or cared about "kerning". I don't need the adjustable spacing, because I read my book left aligned, so I never see big spaces between words or letters.

I have the line spacing set to the smallest in my kepubs, and I've never seen the top of the first line at the bottom of the previous screen.

I like the ability to zoom in on images, and easily use footnotes. (I don't care about the pop-up footnotes, I'm talking about the ability to easily touch a footnote and not have it turn the page)

Shari
Not that kerning or tracking is the end-all and be-all, and all that, but it's also true that the reason that people don't notice or care about it, is because it's done correctly. The whole point of great typography is to not intrude, between the book's content and the reader. It should, absolutely, be invisible.

As pitiful as it is, if you don't notice, we've done our jobs right. If you do notice the typography, we've probably screwed up. ;-)

Spoiler Warning below






This is the primary reason--that and word-processing--that people have zero respect for book layout and design. They assume it all happens by PFM, and that any maroon can use Word or Pages or LO/OO, etc. and layout a book and everything will be just great. Nothing could be further from the truth, but...there you are. Am I saying that book typography and design are equivalent to sending a team to live on Mars? NO, but I am saying that there's a lot more to it than people think.

Hitch
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#63  shalym 06-23-2020, 11:14 AM
Quote Hitch
Not that kerning or tracking is the end-all and be-all, and all that, but it's also true that the reason that people don't notice or care about it, is because it's done correctly. The whole point of great typography is to not intrude, between the book's content and the reader. It should, absolutely, be invisible.

As pitiful as it is, if you don't notice, we've done our jobs right. If you do notice the typography, we've probably screwed up. ;-)

Hitch
I understand what you're saying, but Jon's question was why I like Kepub better than Epub. My response was that I like the way it looks more than I like Epub. If the major difference between them with regards to typesetting is kerning, then maybe the lack of kerning is what I like better? I don't know. I've looked at samples that show kerning next to ones that show lack of kerning and I really don't see the difference. (also, what is "tracking" with regards to ebook formatting? I don't remember ever hearing about that one)

I have a lot of respect for what you do, Hitch. I'm sure that it's just a failing of mine that I can't see the difference. It doesn't, however, invalidate the fact that I like the way Kepub looks over Epub. I don't expect everyone to want to have their books the way I want mine to, and I'm getting *really* tired of being told that the way I like my books to look is "wrong".

Sorry for the rant, and again, Hitch, this is not totally directed against you. It is more directed to other people who think that their way is the only way.

Shari
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#64  Hitch 06-23-2020, 11:49 AM
Quote shalym
I understand what you're saying, but Jon's question was why I like Kepub better than Epub. My response was that I like the way it looks more than I like Epub. If the major difference between them with regards to typesetting is kerning, then maybe the lack of kerning is what I like better? I don't know. I've looked at samples that show kerning next to ones that show lack of kerning and I really don't see the difference. (also, what is "tracking" with regards to ebook formatting? I don't remember ever hearing about that one)

I have a lot of respect for what you do, Hitch. I'm sure that it's just a failing of mine that I can't see the difference. It doesn't, however, invalidate the fact that I like the way Kepub looks over Epub. I don't expect everyone to want to have their books the way I want mine to, and I'm getting *really* tired of being told that the way I like my books to look is "wrong".

Sorry for the rant, and again, Hitch, this is not totally directed against you. It is more directed to other people who think that their way is the only way.

Shari
Shari:

Honestly, I meant what I said. You shouldn't be able to see it! Jon does, because he's, well, Jon. But 99.99% of people wouldn't. They do see rivers, of course and that sort of stuff, but truly...if people SEE what we've done, if they note it, we've probably failed. :-) You don't owe me any apology and largely, I agree with you. I just hadda stick up for plain old typography there!

Tracking, in eBook formatting, doesn't exist at this time, not for reflowable. And there's no reason it should, as it exists to...let's see, to balance the look/feel of a page, in terms of the amount of ink on the page. :-D

Hitch
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#65  shalym 06-23-2020, 04:23 PM
Quote Hitch
Shari:

Honestly, I meant what I said. You shouldn't be able to see it! Jon does, because he's, well, Jon. But 99.99% of people wouldn't. They do see rivers, of course and that sort of stuff, but truly...if people SEE what we've done, if they note it, we've probably failed. :-) You don't owe me any apology and largely, I agree with you. I just hadda stick up for plain old typography there!

Tracking, in eBook formatting, doesn't exist at this time, not for reflowable. And there's no reason it should, as it exists to...let's see, to balance the look/feel of a page, in terms of the amount of ink on the page. :-D

Hitch
Gotcha.

Shari
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#66  JSWolf 06-23-2020, 04:39 PM
Thing is, the font used makes a difference. I don't notice the kerning. But I can notice the lack of kerning. That's the difference. As Hitch said, done right you don't notice. With KePub and Kerning turned off or not available, I can notice it depending on the font. I don't know if Kerning with KePub still requires a legacy kerning table or not. But it ued to if it no longer does.

The other thing I notices with KePub is the need for a wider line height because of the bug that splits the first line of the next page. I prefer a smaller line height then you need in KePub to not notice the bug.
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#67  shalym 06-23-2020, 09:45 PM
Quote JSWolf
Thing is, the font used makes a difference. I don't notice the kerning. But I can notice the lack of kerning. That's the difference. As Hitch said, done right you don't notice. With KePub and Kerning turned off or not available, I can notice it depending on the font. I don't know if Kerning with KePub still requires a legacy kerning table or not. But it ued to if it no longer does.

The other thing I notices with KePub is the need for a wider line height because of the bug that splits the first line of the next page. I prefer a smaller line height then you need in KePub to not notice the bug.
You keep talking about this bug with the line height in kepubs, but I have mine set to the smallest line height and I've never seen it. Maybe that is font dependent, as well? I generally use gill sans on my Kobo...maybe that is why this bug doesn't affect me?

Shari
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#68  ps67 06-23-2020, 11:59 PM
In Kepub, sometime (it is not so frequent in my experience), You see the descending parts of letters of the last line truncated and, if I remember correctly, they are shown in the next page.

May be that only some fonts are affected, and when it happens the only workaround is to change line height or font size in Your device.

Of course we are really gone OT because Kobo has no 10" device (but never say never, may be one day Kobo will make it, just like Pocketbook)
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