Mobileread
ellipses, with or without spaces?
#1  lumpynose 06-02-2019, 04:40 PM
How do you guys handle ellipses?

I find the ones provided by the entity/fonts are too closely spaced; it hardly looks like an ellipsis to me. That could be because I'm used to seeing the three periods separated by full spaces. And if I do use them then using full spaces before or after makes them look even more squashed.

At the moment I'm trying a sequence of: thin non-breaking space, dot, thin non-breaking space, dot, thin non-breaking space, dot, thin space. I.e., thin non breaking space before each dot and the last one followed by a thin space. I'm using a non-breaking thin space at the beginning because the book I'm working on uses ellipses for a pause so I don't want it to be at the beginning of a line.
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#2  lumpynose 06-02-2019, 08:08 PM
Hmph. The Kobo doesn't display those thin non-breaking spaces properly, just little rectangles with question marks in them.
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#3  DaleDe 06-02-2019, 09:07 PM
A safe bet is just 3 dots in a row. No space. This still looks better that the single digit ellipse. Of course use 4 dots if the ellipse ends a sentence.

Dale
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#4  jackie_w 06-02-2019, 09:13 PM
Quote lumpynose
Hmph. The Kobo doesn't display those thin non-breaking spaces properly, just little rectangles with question marks in them.
You need to sideload and use a better font which actually contains those "special" space glyphs. It sounds like the font you're currently using doesn't have them.
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#5  Tex2002ans 06-02-2019, 10:24 PM
Quote lumpynose
How do you guys handle ellipses?
See these 2 topics for extremely detailed discussion:

break/no-break and other spaces
[old thread] non breaking spaces (* and *) automatically removed

I also believe I referenced a Jellby post where he discusses all the ins-and-outs of when to attach ellipses before/after with non-breaking spaces (IIRC there were at least 5 different cases you'll run across).

Quote lumpynose
I find the ones provided by the entity/fonts are too closely spaced; it hardly looks like an ellipsis to me.
... I stick with individual periods with non-breaking spaces between:

Code
Example of a 4-dot ellipsis. . . .
I work on many books with 4+-dot ellipses, and it was the only consistent way to deal with them in ebooks.

It also is the only way that consistently:

And like was already mentioned, using rarer spaces is probably going to get you the blank squares or ? to appear everywhere.
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#6  dwig 06-02-2019, 10:30 PM
A true elipsis is a single character. They do often seem overly narrow to eyes used to seeing the three periods cheat. If you use 3 periods, they should not have spaces between them. Personally, when I use the cheat and it ends a sentence, I prefer to separate then period following the elipsis with a space, thin space when using a decent typographic system and targeting print output.
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#7  Tex2002ans 06-02-2019, 10:43 PM
Quote dwig
If you use 3 periods, they should not have spaces between them.
Look at Post #12 in the topic above where I used some different fonts on MobileRead. You can see the inconsistency in ellipsis spacing in different fonts.

When readers are fully in control of font selection... you can see where issues could arise.

Quote dwig
A true elipsis is a single character. They do often seem overly narrow to eyes used to seeing the three periods cheat.
Mostly why many typographers cheat and insert THIN SPACEs between periods.

That hack works in InDesign and other visual-only output, but that's a no-go in ebooks.

Quote dwig
Personally, when I use the cheat and it ends a sentence, I prefer to separate then period following the elipsis with a space, thin space when using a decent typographic system and targeting print output.
If you see one of the Post #48 references I made in the topic, you can see when I tested the linebreaking of the normal THIN SPACE character and its inconsistency across programs.

Sadly, you'll still run into many cases where the previous character could get broken from the attached punctuation.
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#8  GrannyGrump 06-02-2019, 11:31 PM
I still follow the information from this old thread to create "handmade" ellipses.
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...ghlight=HELLIP

Granted, I am pretty much only working with vintage books, and the modern glyph often just does not look right there. Purely a personal preference.

I also get annoyed that in some fonts, unless you have super-excellent eyesight (which I do not) the ellipsis glyph is so narrow that it is almost indistinguishable from an underscore!
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#9  GrannyGrump 06-03-2019, 12:08 AM
PS --- RbnJrg posted a solution to prevent trailing ellipses and em dashes and other punctuation from breaking off as orphans onto a separate line.
See Post # 17 on this thread:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...=NOWRAP&page=2

CSS:
Code
.nowrap { text-indent: 0; display: inline-block;
}
This span is useful for end-of-line for poetry. Also for dialogue, if you have a ton ending with em dash --- it is so annoying to lose the em dash with closing quote mark onto a new line.

But you should not use the span on long words, as it prevents hyphenation, and might cause large gaps along the right-hand margin.
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#10  Jellby 06-03-2019, 06:18 AM
"display: inline-block" used to be outside the ePub 2 specification, and not supported by some readers. I don't know what's the status now, but I wouldn't rely on it.

My preferred (possibly outdated) solutions:

In English: . . . (adding extra   on the side depending on the surrounding punctuation.)

In Spanish: ... (because that's the correct typesetting of an ellipsis in Spanish, got to love its simplicity )
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