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FWIW: Anti-amazon astroturfing
#1  fjtorres 09-20-2019, 03:33 PM
This may belong elsewhere, move accordingly.

All those recent anti-Amazon reports? Not an accident.
At least one book-related story has quoted these folks.

From the WSJ, Via MSN:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/a-grass-roots-campaign-to-take-down-amazon-is-funded-by-amazon-s-biggest-rivals/ar-AAHASGv?ocid=NL_ENUS_D1_20190920_6_2


Quote

About 18 months ago a new nonprofit group called Free and Fair Markets Initiative launched a national campaign criticizing the business practices of one powerful company: Amazon.com Inc.


Free and Fair Markets accused Amazon of stifling competition and innovation, inhibiting consumer choice, gorging on government subsidies, endangering its warehouse workers and exposing consumer data to privacy breaches. It claimed to have grass-roots support from average citizens across the U.S, citing a labor union, a Boston management professor and a California businessman.

What the group did not say is that it received backing from some of Amazon’s chief corporate rivals. They include shopping mall owner Simon Property Group Inc., retailer Walmart Inc. and software giant Oracle Corp., according to people involved with and briefed on the project. Simon Property is fighting to keep shoppers who now prefer to buy what they need on Amazon; Walmart is competing with Amazon over retail sales; and Oracle is battling Amazon over a $10 billion Pentagon cloud-computing contract.

The grass-roots support cited by the group was also not what it appeared to be. The labor union says it was listed as a member of the group without permission and says a document purporting to show that it gave permission has a forged signature. The Boston professor says the group, with his permission, ghost-wrote an op-ed for him about Amazon but that he didn’t know he would be named as a member. The California businessman was dead for months before his name was removed from the group’s website this year.

Free and Fair Markets, or FFMI, declined to reveal its funders or disclose if it has directors or a chief executive.

A lot more at the very long and detailed source.

Love'em or hate'em as you will.
Just be aware of where your "facts" come from.
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#2  theducks 09-20-2019, 06:21 PM
Amazon and Google (there are probably lots more) have their down side
BUT
These also have a BIG upside;
Look at Amazons warehouse automation, data center efficiency work.

And Google. I can't even guess. I see their Self driving Cars, Google Maps (free to any device), Voice controlled searches (free to any device) as a huge contribution to the users of the world that were not even their primary function (Search based Advertising).

What has Apple done outside Product development (and some of that IS spectacular, but so is the $$)? OK I forgot I-tunes (which I have not used in almost a decade)
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#3  DiapDealer 09-20-2019, 06:29 PM
Quote fjtorres
Love'em or hate'em as you will.
They deserve neither my love nor my hate. I figure we'll just continue to use each other.
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#4  fjtorres 09-20-2019, 06:35 PM
Amazon's AWS has done a lot to promote cloud computing and built most of it on agnostic solutions and Open Source. And that is what has them leading in the $10B procurement that drew Oracle into this scam.
Note that neither IBM nor Microsoft--also contesting this jackpot--accepted the invitation to astroturf. They're competing the old-fashioned way. With open lobbying.

To me it's not about Amazon but about the ethics of the companies supporting the astroturfing. It's like the old lawyer saw:

Quote

“If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell”

― Carl Sandburg
In this case, neither quality, convenience, nor price are with them, so they call in the dept of dirty tricks.
It would be good to see a list of everybody playing the astroturf game, just to know who to avoid.
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#5  fjtorres 09-20-2019, 06:37 PM
Quote DiapDealer
They deserve neither my love nor my hate. I figure we'll just continue to use each other.
When appropriate, right?
They're tools, not a cult.
Use them as long as they're useful.



But to some they're angels and to others devils.
Not sure why. It's like the Apple fights...
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#6  Nausicaa 09-20-2019, 08:08 PM
Natural monopolies don't exist for long, people are already free to buy from elsewhere.
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#7  Uncle Robin 09-20-2019, 08:40 PM
Quote fjtorres
A
To me it's not about Amazon but about the ethics of the companies supporting the astroturfing. It's like the old lawyer saw:
I think Amazon is morally and ethically bankrupt, but I think that of every corporation, and every politician, without a single exception. This astroturfing though is a nice reminder that no matter how big a megacorp is, it's still run by individual people: The personal animus between Ellison and Bezos is well-known, so it seems to me that the septuagenarian Larry is using his money to get others to do his ranting for him. Making the phrase "astroturfing" even more apt as it's one rich old white guy paying groups to shout at another rich not-so-old white guy "get off my lawn".
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#8  patrickt 09-21-2019, 07:17 AM
Quote Uncle Robin
I think Amazon is morally and ethically bankrupt, but I think that of every corporation, and every politician, without a single exception. This astroturfing though is a nice reminder that no matter how big a megacorp is, it's still run by individual people: The personal animus between Ellison and Bezos is well-known, so it seems to me that the septuagenarian Larry is using his money to get others to do his ranting for him. Making the phrase "astroturfing" even more apt as it's one rich old white guy paying groups to shout at another rich not-so-old white guy "get off my lawn".
I'll put my faith in individuals but not in organizations. All organizations exist solely for their own benefit and the biggest is the worst and that would be the government.

I like buying from Amazon.
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#9  leebase 09-22-2019, 08:50 AM
Apple doesn’t do theIf product development in public like Google....but....

There is all the renewable energy efforts by Apple. They are carbon neutral across the entire company now.

Their phones have a laundry list of environmental friendly initiatives.

They have a audit their entire manufacturing chain for child free work force.

All the medical studies they are supporting with Health Kit (which they made open for everyone).

WebKit, the heart of all mobile browsers...open source effort by Apple. (Google used for years but has is is moving on).

....
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#10  Uncle Robin 09-22-2019, 08:55 AM
Quote leebase
Apple
They have a audit their entire manufacturing chain for child free work force.
....
Or, not so much
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/09/09/foxconns_apple_11_factory_clw_report/
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