Mobileread
Fractional Page Numbering
#11  j.p.s 11-09-2019, 10:28 PM
Quote jhowell
I also prefer page numbers to not be screen numbers, but I understand why others may want that instead. It would be nice if readers had a choice.
I think they (at least somewhat) do. For example, the (ancient) pb360 images in post #1 are showing screens and pages.
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#12  Quoth 11-10-2019, 05:10 AM
I have a sense of Deja Vu reading this thread!
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#13  JSWolf 11-10-2019, 11:11 AM
Quote jhowell
I also prefer page numbers to not be screen numbers, but I understand why others may want that instead. It would be nice if readers had a choice.
They do now. ePub with ADE page numbers or KePub with 1-screen = 1-page.
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#14  issybird 11-10-2019, 11:54 AM
Quote JSWolf
They do now. ePub with ADE page numbers or KePub with 1-screen = 1-page.
It would be better if format didn't determine that choice, especially when "choosing" ePub to get consistent page numbers means you have to sideload.
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#15  rcentros 11-10-2019, 08:49 PM
Quote j.p.s
There are already quite a few numbering schemes for showing location in an ebook, but I would like to discuss one more, (decimal) fractional page numbers. This would allow "real page numbers" that match a specific print version for reference purposes (but does have the problem that many books have multiple print editions with varying pagination), and still show change for each ebook page turn. ...
I like the idea a lot. I haven't had much luck experimenting with your files yet, but I may have gone through them too fast. On my PaperWhite 3 I haven't been able to find an .sdr folder (does this require jailbreaking, or am I'm just blind?).

Anyway, in my opinion (for what it's worth) this would be the best solution I've seen for page numbering. And I want to look at how you use AsciiDoc for this (in your provided source files), as I've used AsciiDoc for a little website and I like it.
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#16  j.p.s 11-10-2019, 09:18 PM
Quote rcentros
I like the idea a lot. I haven't had much luck experimenting with your files yet, but I may have gone through them too fast. On my PaperWhite 3 I haven't been able to find an .sdr folder (does this require jailbreaking, or am I'm just blind?).

Anyway, in my opinion (for what it's worth) this would be the best solution I've seen for page numbering. And I want to look at how you use AsciiDoc for this (in your provided source files), as I've used AsciiDoc for a little website and I like it.
Your PW3 will create the .sdr the first time you open the book. It will be in the same directory the book is in. So, open and close the book, then copy the apnx file into the .sdr directory.

I meant to write up the asciidoc -> epub -> azw3 process today, but did not get around to it.

I'm glad to hear someone is interested in this.

I also think that apnx files can be directly modified to have fractional page numbers inserted, but don't know enough about the format yet.
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#17  Tex2002ans 11-10-2019, 10:50 PM
Quote j.p.s
[...] (decimal) fractional page numbers. This would allow "real page numbers" that match a specific print version for reference purposes (but does have the problem that many books have multiple print editions with varying pagination), and still show change for each ebook page turn.
I would strongly recommend against this.

"Real Page Numbers" (RPNs) do serve an actual purpose for Accessibility reasons, especially for blind readers.

See the ebookcraft 2019 talk "The User's Perspective: Accessibility Features in Action", which was given by a blind person and explained many of the pitfalls of poorly converted ebooks.

Side Note: For all the discussion you would ever want to know about RPNs, I recommend checking out these infamous threads:

Quote j.p.s
There are already quite a few numbering schemes for showing location in an ebook, but I would like to discuss one more, (decimal) fractional page numbers.
It seems like you're trying to create an absolutely arbitrary numbering that doesn't fit ANY sort of standard, making the fractional numbers even worse than just normal "Real Page Numbers".

If you're going through all this trouble, just stick with RPNs from the physical book.

I would say your new "Fractional Page Numbers" have even more disadvantages than a percentage/screen/byte-based approach. In this case, I would say including no RPNs at all would be better than arbitrary fractions.

Quote jhowell
I also prefer page numbers to not be screen numbers, but I understand why others may want that instead. It would be nice if readers had a choice.
Yep, the ultimate is a user-chosen preference between all:

Since I wrote those in-depth RPN posts above, I've become a bit more lenient towards Screen/Percentage.

The different methods can serve different purposes:

which is why allowing all options is so much better, and you can flip between them as needed.
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#18  ZodWallop 11-11-2019, 11:11 AM
Quote issybird
It would be better if format didn't determine that choice, especially when "choosing" ePub to get consistent page numbers means you have to sideload.
To me it seems like an option that would just cause confusion for the average user.

I prefer 1 screen, 1 page. Because I read novels for pleasure and am not planning to attribute a quote as on page 283 only to discover it is actually on page 279 of some other arbitrary edition.

Having said that, I read ePub on my Nooks for years and dealt with what I thought was a wonky page numbering system and lived with it.

I would say the overwhelming majority of reading done on e-ink devices is reading for pleasure and the whole page number kerfuffle is silly. Either system works just fine. It's a tempest in a teapot, really.
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#19  j.p.s 11-11-2019, 11:36 AM
Quote Tex2002ans
It seems like you're trying to create an absolutely arbitrary numbering that doesn't fit ANY sort of standard, making the fractional numbers even worse than just normal "Real Page Numbers".

If you're going through all this trouble, just stick with RPNs from the physical book.
But I am sticking with and augmenting page numbers from physical books.

All I have done is point out that existing devices will display, in addition to roman numerals and ascii integers, page numbers such as 4.5 (and I assume 13b).

I have not tried to predict characters per screen or anything like that, just inserting anchors with fractional page ids in between the existing anchors with integer page ids, then inserting references to those anchors into either the pagelist section of toc.ncx or the page-map.xml file.

kindlegen will work with either, and kindles handle the resulting book apnx files just fine.

So far, epub devices that I have tried only seem to work with page-map EPUBs, whether fractions are involved or not.
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#20  leebase 11-11-2019, 11:36 AM
I have been slowly changing my mind to "word count" rather than "pages" for "how long is this book".

BUT -- man....I'd really like to know "how many pages is this book" to some reasonable standard of the hardback or paperback release of the book. It's like switching from miles to km....of Fahrenheit to Celcius. You just know how far 10 miles is our how cold 24deg F is from a lifetime of habit forming.

I'm a reader of thick books...and there was always a since of pride watching the book mark make it's way through the book. I MISS that feeling reading ebooks. One of the few things I miss.
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