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HELP with Sigil
#11  DiapDealer 09-12-2019, 06:24 AM
Quote un_pogaz
This is also why I don't understand why PageEdit is not integrated as a module in Sigil. Currently, installing and using PageEdit is not easy. He is the son of BookView who was what set Sigil apart from other ePub publishers.
I'm uncertain why you're having such a hard time grasping this concept. Book View didn't go away because we don't like it. It went away because it caused massive issues. We've been trying to do away with it for a long time. And now that we have, why on earth would we we reintegrate many of those exact same issues by incorporating PageEdit right back into Sigil? Why would we sacrifice the ability to update either independently of each other? Including the potential to require different versions of Qt for each on Windows/Mac? And why would we bloat the the Sigil installer with the PageEdit overhead when many won't need it (or create more work for ourselves to create a Sigil installer with PageEdit and one without)?

As for installing and using PageEdit not being "easy" ... Well that's just hogwash. Installing PageEdit is just as easy as installing Sigil. If not more so (less questions/choices on Windows--just double-click it and say "yes").

PageEdit is not the "son" of Book View. It's not the next iteration of Book View. It will never be what Book View was--it was never intended to be. And it will certainly never be incorporated back into Sigil. If you need/want it; install it separately.

As to Book View being what "set Sigil apart from the rest" ... more hogwash. Book View can't simultaneously be an application's defining feature AND be unused by a significant portion of its user-base. No. What sets Sigil off from the rest is that it allows you to actually edit an epub. The rest (with the exception of calibre's editor) are word processors (or word processor add-ons) that allow you to export an epub (but don't actually support opening and editing the epubs they export).

We could have dumped Book View with absolutely no alternative and said "tough sh!t". But we didn't. Funny how those who only want to carp never seem to appreciate that.
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#12  DNSB 09-12-2019, 02:34 PM
Quote un_pogaz
Beyond all the problems of "updating software without looking at changes", Sigil has been for years presented as THE WYSIWYG solution to create an ePub.
It will still take years for software comparison sites to stop talking about Sigil as such. So we're going to hear about BookView for quite some time.
This is also why I don't understand why PageEdit is not integrated as a module in Sigil. Currently, installing and using PageEdit is not easy. He is the son of BookView who was what set Sigil apart from other ePub publishers.
Ummm... For the most part, the CodeView portion is what was discussed as it allowed you to get down and dirty with the code. Given the known issues with Book View when used for editing, I have trouble understanding why anyone in a possession of a moiety of their senses would ever edit in Book View. For me, the Preview pane open on a second monitor gives me the best of both worlds.
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#13  exaltedwombat 09-12-2019, 02:48 PM
PageEdit may look and act a lot like Book View. It may feel almost as integrated into Sigil as Book View was - particularly with the new 'open the OPF file' trick. And I wouldn't be surprised if the integration gets even more seamless in future versions. But it is very important to the developers that you realise it is a Completely Separate Program. As, indeed, it is.

Don't argue. Essentially, you've got Book View back. If you really want to use Sigil as a bad WYSIWYG word processor rather than a good epub editor (and that's not really fair, Book View had its uses even for those of us who worked mostly in Code View) you can. Enjoy!
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#14  BetterRed 09-12-2019, 06:47 PM
Quote DiapDealer
We could have dumped Book View with absolutely no alternative and said "tough sh!t".
That was my expectation.

BR
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#15  DiapDealer 09-12-2019, 07:31 PM
Quote BetterRed
That was my expectation.
Kevin talked me down.
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#16  GrannyGrump 09-12-2019, 10:45 PM
marlonjonesmba said:
I understand that it's a WYSIWYG program.

DiapDealer said:
But it's not. We removed all references to the word WYSIWYG from Sigil quite a while ago.


Possibly part of the problem is that Google brings ups hits from download sites (softonic, cnet, etc, etc) that still use the old WYSIWYG description.
And, OH-MY-GOD----Wikipedia! Wikipedia says: Sigil supports both WYSIWYG and code-based editing of EPUB files. I guess nobody has updated that page in a while.

So it is understandable to me that new users would be confused about this.
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#17  Tex2002ans 09-13-2019, 05:21 AM
Quote GrannyGrump
So it is understandable to me that new users would be confused about this.
And I agree with un_pogaz, there are tons of those download sites or "Best 8 EPUB Programs 2019" or "10 Best EPUB Tools" or "How to Make an Ebook" sites out there.

They flood the top of many Google searches, and talk about how great and easy the WYSWIG editing in Sigil is.

Typically, the non-technically savvy people find those sites. And then instead of finding the best EPUB tool there is (Sigil)... they go to garbage like Vellum (it still infuriates me how much marketing nonsense there is about that program, and it's $250+, Mac-Only... preposterous!).
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#18  un_pogaz 09-13-2019, 06:26 AM
I fully understand that PageEdit is a program totally different from Sigil, simply, I think that its integration could potentially be better (than the"Open With..." or "External XHTML editor").

I'd also like to lift a embicuiter: I am a "CodeView editor".
But I think of all those who use Sigil think that it is a WYSIWYG editor because it has been presented to them as such.

I came to Sigil because it was WYSIWYG, I had problems with BookView, I found this forum, and I was kindly explained to me that BookView was depreciated (and would soon be removed), so I got into CodeView.

How many people are still at step 1 or 2 of my journey? Probably a lot more than you think.
Many will abandon Sigil because BookView has disappeared and he can't imagine any other way of working than in WYSIWYG (and we never will be).

Sigil is, in many ways, the best publisher from scartch in ePub, the first is that it encourages people to learn what an ePub really is. Still, it is necessary to be properly invited (what BookView was doing)
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#19  BetterRed 09-13-2019, 06:31 AM
Quote Tex2002ans
... they go to garbage like Vellum (it still infuriates me how much marketing nonsense there is about that program, and it's $250+, Mac-Only... preposterous!).
Never mind the quality, feel the width at that price, and seeing as it's Apple only, it must be good - by definition.

I did a Google search for 'epub editors' just after GG posted, none of those cnet, softonic download sites came up in first couple of pages. And only a couple of the half-dozen or so '10 best epub editors' pages even mentioned Sigil, and those that did didn't mention WYSIWYG.

Probably my location or my Google analytics profile

BR
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#20  Tex2002ans 09-13-2019, 06:46 AM
Quote un_pogaz
I fully understand that PageEdit is a program totally different from Sigil, simply, I think that its integration could potentially be better (than the"Open With..." or "External XHTML editor").


Quote un_pogaz
I came to Sigil because it was WYSIWYG, I had problems with BookView, [...]

How many people are still at step 1 or 2 of my journey? Probably a lot more than you think.

Many will abandon Sigil because BookView has disappeared and he can't imagine any other way of working than in WYSIWYG (and we never will be).
We all started out as complete noobs. I remember when I first started reading EPUBs and found Sigil all those years ago. I came to it because it was an easy way to fix a handful of typos in the books I was reading + took care of the OPF and all the other EPUB crap without me having to manually ZIP things again after making corrections.

It was Open Source (huge plus), ran on every OS (huge plus), and let me see the book itself without having to look through HTML code soup, or having to constantly drag back to ADE to make sure I didn't botch anything.

You were even able to do very minor corrections in Book View (like add a space, delete a letter, comma->period) without making the book explode... and then once I became much more comfortable with EPUB, then went digging into the HTML.

Many readers just needed that easy GUI "fixing"... but if you look at some of the HTML out of Word abominations, InDesign, or HTML from convert-my-docx-to-any-format-dot-com, even I wouldn't know where the heck to start! (Well, I do now... but you get the point. We're talking about noobs! )

Quote BetterRed
I did a Google search for 'epub editors' just after GG posted, none of those cnet, softonic download sites came up in first couple of pages. And only a couple of the half-dozen or so '10 best epub editors' pages even mentioned Sigil, and those that did didn't mention WYSIWYG.
I definitely ran across these things over the past 8 years...

Perhaps now it's being drowned out by even more of the Vellum, Kindle Create, iBooks Author, -type "drag-and-drop, look how 'easy' it is to create a pile of garbage and call it an ebook" programs. :P
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