Mobileread
Amazon objecting to page breaks
#11  exaltedwombat 01-19-2020, 08:43 AM
Quote Hitch
Suffice to say, I'm raising my file-modification and fixing prices
Why? You set a price for file-modification. Now some file-modification business may be coming in, you won't stand by that price?
Reply 

#12  Hitch 01-19-2020, 01:39 PM
Quote exaltedwombat
Why? You set a price for file-modification. Now some file-modification business may be coming in, you won't stand by that price?
Nope, because our file-mod rates have been the same since 2010, and basically, they've been to enable our customers to fix MINOR mistakes (one-two typos that they find post-publishing) at about our cost. I've been intending to revisit the rates for the last 5 years, but have been so busy racing from fire-to-fire that I haven't had a chance. Given the likelihood that this new focus by Amazon means that we'll be doing a lot of this, I quite literally can't afford to not revise the rates.

Hitch
Reply 

#13  Tex2002ans 01-20-2020, 05:41 AM
Quote exaltedwombat
I suspect it was because I'd used some section headings with a distinctive css style but not tagged them as a header style.
Definitely should have marked them as proper headings in the first place.

And then using page-break-before on lots of strangely formatted <p>s? Could probably see why an automated check might complain about that.

Quote exaltedwombat
Are Amazon tightening up their standards retrospectively?
Seems like it.

In a single swoop, ~30 of my conversions got hit with KQNs. And the craziest is the TOC being multiple levels deep:

Quote
Few items in your Logical Table of Contents (NCX) is not visible in certain kindle devices such as tablets, E-ink devices and IOS platforms. This issue is seen because those items are set in Level 2. Please change the label entities from level 2 to level 1, so that all the NCX label entities are visible to customers.
Code
- Part 1
-- Chapter 1
--- Subchapter 1.1 <---- KQN Issue!!!!
Our most illustrious user, Hitch, told me it's most likely because "Kindle for PC can't display <h3> or deeper"...

Getting a KQN hit over that is absolutely absurd, especially with Non-Fiction works. <h3> is EXTREMELY common (and while <h4> and <h5> are much more rare, they're still possible).

Mangling the levels up the chain would completely defeat the purpose of a properly nested TOC!

(And how much do you want to bet... five years from now, you'll get hit with KQNs for having a wrongly nested TOC after you "corrected it".)

Quote Hitch
I mean...I can't fathom what's going to happen as this pervades the self-pubbing universe of existing ebooks.
Absolutely no idea, especially if they are going through books pre-high-DPI and insisting on higher resolution images.

As you've said, in many cases there aren't higher quality sources.

What are they going to do next, crack down on lower resolution covers for old books... when their old standards insisted on resolutions like 600x900?

Quote Hitch
YES. I have a book in right now--DANGER, DANGER WILL ROBINSON!--that has been KQN'ed for, wait for it, ONE, repeat, ONE expired link.
While it's a good idea to try to correct this sort of thing if/when you can, it's insane to strictly enforce it.

Link Rot is natural, and a large percent of all URLs die each year.

Back in 2017, I linked to the fantastic article "When Nothing Ever Goes Out of Print: Maintaining Backlist Ebooks" discussing that...

* * *

Tip: Calibre Editor's Tools > External Links > Check External Links is absolutely fantastic for quickly checking for dead links.

Before publishing an ebook, I always try to preemptively squash all dead links. (And since many books I work on a pre-publication... we can take care of it in Print as well.)

But once it's out in the wild... the amount of working URLs can only go down.

Quote Hitch
I mean, here's a question--will they ask print publishers to go back and redo the book, because their links are expired?????????
Similarly, I linked to the fantastic talk from ebookcraft 2019 "Building Ebooks that Last" (actually given by the same woman who wrote the above article!).

She used to work as an editor for Houghton Mifflin, and she explained they do get QC reports from across all retailers. At 7:30 + 12:00, she shows pie charts of flagged reports:

but if you remove the 2 huge typo categories, then this is all the non-typo errors reported:

... I doubt Amazon would force them to pull their books down though. (They would probably let the big guys slide, while self-pubbers get crushed under mass automated checks.)

And these big publishers have the capability to fix a lot of this stuff... self-publishers who ran through the disgusting Word->MOBI workflows? You think they'll be able to dig through the technical innards and fix some of these issues on a years-old ebook?
Reply 

#14  jhowell 01-20-2020, 09:55 AM
Quote Tex2002ans
In a single swoop, ~30 of my conversions got hit with KQNs. And the craziest is the TOC being multiple levels deep:

Quote
Few items in your Logical Table of Contents (NCX) is not visible in certain kindle devices such as tablets, E-ink devices and IOS platforms. This issue is seen because those items are set in Level 2. Please change the label entities from level 2 to level 1, so that all the NCX label entities are visible to customers.
...
Our most illustrious user, Hitch, told me it's most likely because "Kindle for PC can't display <h3> or deeper"...
Version 2019.2 of the Amazon Kindle Publishing Guidelines (November 2019) added a new guideline:

Quote
5.2 NCX Guidelines
...
Important: Kindle devices and applications support two levels of nesting.
So, this is a new requirement and they consider it to be important.

The statement about two level of nesting is not exactly truthful. I took a look at a book published long ago that I know has three levels of NCX TOC (Legends B005LVO6FS) on various apps and devices running the latest software. Only two levels show on a Kindle Oasis and Kindle for iOS. However, all three levels show using Kindle for PC, Kindle for Android, a Fire tablet, and Kindle Previewer 3.
Reply 

#15  Hitch 01-20-2020, 10:10 AM
Quote Tex2002ans

In a single swoop, ~30 of my conversions got hit with KQNs. And the craziest is the TOC being multiple levels deep:



Code
- Part 1
-- Chapter 1
--- Subchapter 1.1 <---- KQN Issue!!!!
Our most illustrious user, Hitch, told me it's most likely because "Kindle for PC can't display <h3> or deeper"...
Yes, we're having to fix some of these, too and my clients are screaming like stuck pigs.

Quote
While it's a good idea to try to correct this sort of thing if/when you can, it's insane to strictly enforce it.

Link Rot is natural, and a large percent of all URLs die each year.

Back in 2017, I linked to the fantastic article "When Nothing Ever Goes Out of Print: Maintaining Backlist Ebooks" discussing that...

* * *

Tip: Calibre Editor's Tools > External Links > Check External Links is absolutely fantastic for quickly checking for dead links.

Before publishing an ebook, I always try to preemptively squash all dead links. (And since many books I work on a pre-publication... we can take care of it in Print as well.)

But once it's out in the wild... the amount of working URLs can only go down.
Amazon's error message to the customer/us is now saying that we should be using link archives to prevent link rot. Link archives! I went to Archive-it.org and my teeth are already grinding. First, there's no way to simply "join" or create an account. Then they want you to sit through a webinar, before you do ANYTHING else, and so on.

So, they suggested archiving using The WBM or The Internet Archive,which would give you an archived page link, yes, but it also means, for longer/bigger/more complex books, doing this one page/url at a time...rather laborious. I can't WAIT to see what self-pubs and authors will say when I start telling them THIS stuff. Oy....


Anyway...honestly, I have a lot of other crap on my plate and this is just making my damn head hurt.

Hitch
Reply 

#16  Tex2002ans 01-20-2020, 07:26 PM
Quote jhowell
The statement about two level of nesting is not exactly truthful. I took a look at a book published long ago that I know has three levels of NCX TOC (Legends B005LVO6FS) on various apps and devices running the latest software. Only two levels show on a Kindle Oasis and Kindle for iOS. However, all three levels show using Kindle for PC, Kindle for Android, a Fire tablet, and Kindle Previewer 3.
Thanks for the info. Mind taking screenshots of <h3> and deeper displaying on the various devices/apps?

So hard to get real-life info on a lot of this stuff... since their own documentation doesn't tell the exact truth.

Quote jhowell
Version 2019.2 of the Amazon Kindle Publishing Guidelines (November 2019) added a new guideline:
Thanks. Last version I had was 2019.1. Guess I'll have to scan through and see what's changed in the latest.

But this 2-levels-deep TOC is bullshit.

For example, I'm working on journals right now which typically include:

Yes, some of those can be condensed. Ideally, you would have:

Code
- Vol. #, No. #.
-- Article Title
--- Heading 1
---- Subheading 2
----- Subsubheading 3
If you didn't want to go full-TOC navigation, you could remove some of the lower subheadings:

Code
- Vol. #, No. #.
-- Article Title
--- Heading 1
that only gets you to <h3>.

... but cutting it down to 2 levels, or trying to condense even more of that information into a single heading, would just lead to actual readability issues:

Code
- Vol. 1, No. 1: Article Title
-- Heading 1
-- Heading 2
- Vol. 1, No. 2: Article Title
-- Heading 1
- Vol. 1, No. 3: Article Title
- Vol. 2, No. 1: Article Title
Quote jhowell
So, this is a new requirement and they consider it to be important.
Anyway, in anticipation for this TOC-readjustment hell, I recommended an enhancement in the Sigil 1.0 thread.

Hopefully something along those lines gets implemented which would allow you to mass shift headings to other levels.

Quote Hitch
So, they suggested archiving using The WBM or The Internet Archive,which would give you an archived page link, yes, but it also means, for longer/bigger/more complex books, doing this one page/url at a time...rather laborious.
🖕

... and the more and more of these changes occur, the more out of sync Print<->ebook becomes (which leads to a hell of a lot more headaches).

More Link Rot Rants: In many cases, websites even change their underlying structure over the years. So something like:

Code
Old: examplenews.com/article/123.html
New: examplenews.com/full-title-of-article-is-here.html
or there's all this appended garbage to their links which means archive.org "never archived" the exact original:

Code
examplenews.com/full-title-of-article-is-here.html#appended&garbage=1&gobbledygook&searchterms=author.concept
(Also why when I'm creating ebooks, I try to preemptively strip the URLs to their barebones.)

So it requires looking up each thing in a search engine, trying to find the latest working URL. (And speaking of... paywalls. Now a lot of the times these news articles are locked so I can't even see if it's correct!)
Reply 

#17  jhowell 01-20-2020, 07:54 PM
Quote Tex2002ans
Thanks for the info. Mind taking screenshots of <h3> and deeper displaying on the various devices/apps?
I don’t mind and will do it when I have some free time. I doubt it will do you any good though.
Reply 

#18  Tex2002ans 01-20-2020, 10:19 PM
Quote jhowell
I don’t mind and will do it when I have some free time.
Thanks.

Quote jhowell
I doubt it will do you any good though.
I think I'll be able to find a use for it...

*brainstorming article ideas*
Reply 

#19  j.p.s 01-20-2020, 11:40 PM
Quote Hitch
So, they suggested archiving using The WBM or The Internet Archive,which would give you an archived page link, yes, but it also means, for longer/bigger/more complex books, doing this one page/url at a time...rather laborious. I can't WAIT to see what self-pubs and authors will say when I start telling them THIS stuff. Oy....
The Internet Archive's wayback machine is a wonderful resource and I'm sure they've poured enormous resources into it, but large portions of it have been lost over time. The gremlins seem to prioritize disappearing pages that I try to find.
Reply 

#20  Hitch 01-21-2020, 01:20 PM
Quote j.p.s
The Internet Archive's wayback machine is a wonderful resource and I'm sure they've poured enormous resources into it, but large portions of it have been lost over time. The gremlins seem to prioritize disappearing pages that I try to find.
AND...yup, got another one this morning. ONE bloody link, whole new author and they're insisting that she gives them a REASON why she "can't" fix it.




Hitch (who is very, VERY grumpy about this...)
Reply 

 « First  « Prev Next »  Last »  (2/4)
Today's Posts | Search this Thread | Login | Register