Mobileread
Android devices. Built in e-reader vs. e-reader app. Your preferences?
#11  Quoth 11-03-2019, 05:21 PM
I think all the later Sony models used Android. Though why is a mystery. But then Sony abandoned their own decent TV GUI to use Google's Android TV.

There are two main reasons why Android exists and why Google bought it in:
1) Symbian used only the official Mobile Java because Sun (later Oracle) mysteriously wouldn't licence Desktop Java on the same terms. Android uses a clone of desktop JVM so as to run full Java essentially. The court case is still running.
2) Android had a much better touch orientated GUI than the stupid Series 60 on top of Symbian (Nokia had due to politics internally abandoned a touch GUI based on the superior Series 80 used on the Communicator, back in maybe 2003).

An eink GUI needs to be designed for eink. The reader app needs to be page based. Mobi used on PalmOS was bought up by Amazon.

There is no good reason to use Android (which uses a Linux kernel) over plain Linux, GNU utilities as on Linux distros and a custom GUI and application, both of which are needed for Android anyway. Regular Android apps are not going to be sensible on eink. Earlier Sony readers didn't use Android, well it didn't exist!

First Smart Phone 1998, best was the 1998 Nokia Communicator on AMD x86 like a 486. Then 2001 there was colour and ARM CPU on Nokia. I had both models.

Sony Librie in released in 2004 predates Kindle and Android.

iPhone was released on June 29, 2007 Earlier that year touch screen 4G phones (Flash-OFDMA by Flarion with tile GUI by Trolltech) were demoed. Qualcomm bought Flarion for the 4G IP and that killed the project.

Kindle November 2007.

Android on phones in late 2008 , four years after the first Sony eink based ereader. The PRS-T1 was 2011, by 2014 Sony had ditched the ebook reader. Too much influenced by media division and wanting to sell ebooks. They now only do high end PDF based eink, "digital paper".

Android was bought by Google bought in 2005.
Amazon bought up Mobipocket. The Mobi format and Moboreader was well known from 2000 and on Symbian, WinCE, Windows desktop, PalmOS for PDAs (Psion and WinCE), smartphones and feature phones.
Amazon.com bought Mobipocket.com in 2005 and kept it running until October 2016, when it permanently shut down the Mobipocket website and servers. I'm not clear if the actual reader on the original Kindle was based on Mobi Reader.
Also shows the evils of DRM, how it and evil so called "licences" rather than regular copyright deprive consumers.
Reply 

#12  pazos 11-03-2019, 06:54 PM
Android itself isn't a bad decission for embedded devices with a touchscreen and Sony did a good job with their T devices. What is bad are Google Play services, vendor spy/bloatware and having a bunch of apps running in them. Sony killed all these problems shipping a "closed" version of android 2.2.

Another nasty choice that some vendors do nowadays is choosing a platform with deficient power management (rockchip), a platform with known issues handling cpu freq (allwinner) or a platform without sources at all (mediatek). Sony used freescale like Kindle, Kobos, Cervantes, Tolinos.

The java vm used in android has nothing to do with the standalone Oracle/Sun machine. It just happen that both are compatible with bytecode for java7. The old one was Dalvik and the new one is ART.

The sad thing is that most e-ink devices with android are promoted as "Android with Play Store" and use that as an excuse to ship bad reader software.
Reply 

#13  JSWolf 11-03-2019, 07:36 PM
And in the USA, the Sony Reader PRS-500 was released September 2006.
Reply 

#14  HLS 11-03-2019, 07:39 PM
@Dopedangel I thought that bug in your avatar was a bug on my screen and it freaked me out LOL
Reply 

#15  Quoth 11-03-2019, 08:13 PM
Quote pazos
Android itself isn't a bad decission for embedded devices with a touchscreen
No, it's pointless for eink and pointless for something you can't install apps on.

I had a PRS-T1 and it didn't do anything Androidy. I think the T2 is basically a T1 that works better. Considering that Sony had FOUR years of experience doing ereaders without Android rather than being new in 2008 it made no sense. Also they had there own decent TV GUI before the Ghastly Android TV.
They produced PS1, PS2, PS3, PS4. The PS2 even had a Sony Linux Distro.
Minidisk
PSP (various models)
PCs & laptops

The only way it would have been slightly logical was if the Phone Division was taking over the ereaders.

I've written a program for Android and one in Java to run on Linux or Windows desktop identically.
I've written C programs for Linux (Debian) and also for OpenWRT with no GUI. I helped port Debian on to a 320 x 240 LCD panel portable gadget with touch screen, email, MP3, player, Firefox etc and Trolltech QT based GUI in late 2006 early 2007.
So from my own experience I can see no point to Android for an ereader of any screen type and less for eink. Especially when you've already been doing better ereaders than the first Kindle. No point to Android unless you are including the Android home screen and stock apps and no point if you can't install apps. You don't absolutely need the Playstore to install apps on Android, but unless you are Samsung, Huawei or Microsoft it's a bit mad.
Reply 

#16  Quoth 11-03-2019, 08:21 PM
Quote pazos
The java vm used in android has nothing to do with the standalone Oracle/Sun machine. It just happen that both are compatible with bytecode for java7. The old one was Dalvik and the new one is ART.
Because they COULDN'T put desktop JVM without getting sued. The entire point of it is instead of limited subset Java allowed by Sun on Mobile (symbian era) they cloned so as to have full fat Java on mobile. So of course it's compatible. There are emails querying if they'd get sued anyway. They did and it's still ongoing. So the Java vm used in android has EVERYTHING to do with the Oracle/Sun machine. Deliberately, so they can have a full Java implementation.

They also wanted to get the existing Symbian developers which is why they chose Java at all.

No ereader needs the Android VM for Java. They don't need to run Java.
Reply 

#17  Pajamaman 11-03-2019, 09:02 PM
I use alreader, or the stock oreader that comes with onyx ereaders because its so good. So both. I use koreader on a kindle too, so I don't even use the standard reader on a non-Android reader.
Reply 

#18  pazos 11-04-2019, 01:35 PM
Quote FrustratedReader
Because they COULDN'T put desktop JVM without getting sued. The entire point of it is instead of limited subset Java allowed by Sun on Mobile (symbian era) they cloned so as to have full fat Java on mobile. So of course it's compatible. There are emails querying if they'd get sued anyway. They did and it's still ongoing. So the Java vm used in android has EVERYTHING to do with the Oracle/Sun machine. Deliberately, so they can have a full Java implementation.
Incorrect. JVM is stack based because it is compatible with more architectures and fits the slogan: build once, run everywhere. Dalvik VM is register based because google don't need DVM everywhere and this allow them to run faster as they can skip certain cpu instructions used to manipulate the stack.

Implying that google implementation of the java vm is just a copy or a clone of the java one is wrong. They're both different implementations. The implentation that's part of android core relies on an underlying linux kernel and a bunch of c++ glue code while the oracle one can run on most hw arch without carying about the underlying OS.

BTW, I was wrong in my last comment. DVM don't run java bytecode. It is compatible at the source level but the java classes are not just compiled to java bytecode, but translated to dalvik opcodes too.


Quote FrustratedReader
No ereader needs the Android VM for Java. They don't need to run Java.
I agree with you. Sadly isn't a matter of what's needed but what is already available. The two options most manufacturers choose are based on AOSP + SDK framework and Linux + Qt framework. Releasing an application inside an embedded device is not an option if you use qt without a license for that specific device. (See https://www.qt.io/qt-for-device-creation/). So most vendors go with the android route since it provides more frameworks and permissive licenses too.

Some people still thinks that java, in the context of android, adds an overhead and is slower that native code. Unless you work with multimedia, AR or cpu intensive tasks (like compression/decompression) that's not true.
Reply 

#19  pazos 11-04-2019, 02:23 PM
Quote FrustratedReader
No, it's pointless for eink and pointless for something you can't install apps on.

I had a PRS-T1 and it didn't do anything Androidy. I think the T2 is basically a T1 that works better. Considering that Sony had FOUR years of experience doing ereaders without Android rather than being new in 2008 it made no sense. Also they had there own decent TV GUI before the Ghastly Android TV.
They produced PS1, PS2, PS3, PS4. The PS2 even had a Sony Linux Distro.
Minidisk
PSP (various models)
PCs & laptops

The only way it would have been slightly logical was if the Phone Division was taking over the ereaders.

I've written a program for Android and one in Java to run on Linux or Windows desktop identically.
I've written C programs for Linux (Debian) and also for OpenWRT with no GUI. I helped port Debian on to a 320 x 240 LCD panel portable gadget with touch screen, email, MP3, player, Firefox etc and Trolltech QT based GUI in late 2006 early 2007.
So from my own experience I can see no point to Android for an ereader of any screen type and less for eink. Especially when you've already been doing better ereaders than the first Kindle. No point to Android unless you are including the Android home screen and stock apps and no point if you can't install apps. You don't absolutely need the Playstore to install apps on Android, but unless you are Samsung, Huawei or Microsoft it's a bit mad.
Sorry I missed that comment.

You could argue that Nook, Tolino or Sony have a worse software stack that Kobos or Kindles, but you cannot say that the only reason for that is they're based on AOSP.

The fact that you did sw development outside the Android world just shows that is possible to avoid android completely. In the same vein it is possible to avoid Qt on desktop and use other frameworks like wxwidgets or gtk.
Reply 

#20  Tortuosit 11-10-2019, 11:12 AM
Moon+. I carry it from device to device (Settings,covers). No alternative to it in book management and flexibility.
I read on standard android smartphones only, OLED preferably. Currently a Mate 20 X.
Reply 

 « First  « Prev   (2/2)
Today's Posts | Search this Thread | Login | Register