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Help ;with Kindle Page Numbers
#1  RJinWY 12-13-2019, 04:01 PM
Hi. This is my first day on this forum. I am looking for someone who can help me with my effort to self publish my book. I had a publisher who took me all the way through the layout phase and is about to upload my book for launch next wednesday. However, I've asked them about footnote formatting and adding page numbers to match my soft cover book but they do not know how to do that. I think they are only using KDP and the previewer and not using Calibre or other software that can do more advanced formatting (which I am assuming is needed for my two requests).

I am not techie so would like to pay someone to help me do this. I can be reached at rjohnson2000@gmail.com. Thanks, rj
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#2  Quoth 12-14-2019, 07:16 AM
Page numbers are meaningless on ebooks. They only work as intended on PDFs because PDFs are a way to proof content for paper.

Ebooks MUST reflow, have user changeable linespacing, font face, font size and margins. Also the resolution can be from 72 DPI to 300 DPI, the screen size from 3" to 14" and the screen aspect ratio can vary.

Some ereaders will create "fake" page numbers. Also epub can have Adobe page numbers. You can put a page number at a paragraph break in the body at the margin corresponding to "real" page numbering for a particular paper edition. It's horrible and I have removed it by editing the epub files on the few books I've found that do it.

Different paper editions often have different page numbering.

On paper the purpose of a page number is to find a page. The ebook uses phrase/word search and links in a Table Of Contents or a full Index, so page numbers for lookup are not required and won't work that way anyway.

Footnotes are a separate subject. They are needed for reference works and involve links in the text. Best avoided and replaced by inline right justified paragraphs in fiction texts.
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#3  Notjohn 12-14-2019, 11:11 AM
If your "publisher" can't handle footnotes, find a formatter who can, and fer gosh sake don't allow anyone to upload your book to the KDP (or Kobo or Apple or B&N or any other online store).

While traditional publishers can employ "Real Page Numbers," I am pretty sure that self-pubbers cannot. I did read a couple of ebooks recently that had page numbers manually inserted into the text (one was a PDF review copy, the other a Guttenberg Project reprise of a public domain translation. I wouldn't advise your doing that. It didn't bother me, but I can imagine its bothering some readers.
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#4  j.p.s 12-14-2019, 12:31 PM
Quote Notjohn
While traditional publishers can employ "Real Page Numbers," I am pretty sure that self-pubbers cannot.
I thought that if a self-pubber submits an EPUB with a pagelist section in toc.ncx or a page-map.xml file to amazon then amazon will sell the book with page numbers. Also, I think a self-pubber can use kindlegen on such an EPUB themselves and submit the resulting fat mobi to amazon.
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#5  Hitch 12-14-2019, 10:46 PM
Quote RJinWY
Hi. This is my first day on this forum. I am looking for someone who can help me with my effort to self publish my book. I had a publisher who took me all the way through the layout phase and is about to upload my book for launch next wednesday. However, I've asked them about footnote formatting and adding page numbers to match my soft cover book but they do not know how to do that. I think they are only using KDP and the previewer and not using Calibre or other software that can do more advanced formatting (which I am assuming is needed for my two requests).

I am not techie so would like to pay someone to help me do this. I can be reached at rjohnson2000@gmail.com. Thanks, rj
Okay, I don't even know where to start.
  1. First, Calibre doesn't do formatting that's "more advanced" than KDP, when it comes to ePUB3, etc. Get that out of your head.
  2. If your publisher doesn't know how to do linked pop-up footnotes, find a real publisher. That's nuts.
  3. Is your publisher going to take the money and then pay you? Or is this publisher uploading the file to YOUR publisher account? If the latter, that's against Amazon's TOS and you could be in a spot of bother if Amazon sees that.
  4. Any competent formatter can add "RPN" (Real Page Numbers) to an ebook, but unless your book is a complex textbook, there's no reason on God's green earth for that. Is there?
  5. AND, unless you have a print book that's published, Amazon won't enable the RPNs for your book. Do you?

If that company is your "publisher," why should you pay for a formatter?

There are a list of competent formatters on the Amazon site, in the HELP section--those that have been approved by Amazon, not only for formatting for self-publishers, but that list is also approved to make books for Amazon, itself, as their customer, so you know that any company there will know what to do.

Hitch
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#6  Tex2002ans 12-15-2019, 09:33 PM
Quote Hitch
There are a list of competent formatters on the Amazon site, in the HELP section--those that have been approved by Amazon, not only for formatting for self-publishers, but that list is also approved to make books for Amazon, itself, as their customer, so you know that any company there will know what to do.


Quote Hitch
If your publisher doesn't know how to do linked pop-up footnotes, find a real publisher. That's nuts.
Yeah, I'm interested in seeing what sorts of footnotes the original book has.

Quote FrustratedReader
Page numbers are meaningless on ebooks. They only work as intended on PDFs because PDFs are a way to proof content for paper.
This is completely incorrect.

Real Page Numbers (RPNs) in ebooks can still serve a useful purpose (especially for reference, navigation, and Accessibility). Latest in-depth "page numbers in ebooks" discussion was just last month:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...88#post3914488

and you can always look up these topics in your favorite search engine:

Code
"rpns" site:mobileread.com
"real page numbers" hitch site:mobileread.com
"real page numbers" tex2002ans site:mobileread.com
to pretty much find everything there is to know about them.

Quote Notjohn
I did read a couple of ebooks recently that had page numbers manually inserted into the text (one was a PDF review copy, the other a Guttenberg Project reprise of a public domain translation. I wouldn't advise your doing that. It didn't bother me, but I can imagine its bothering some readers.
Sticking numbers smack dab in the middle of text will eventually get you Kindle Quality Notices (KQNs):

See all the discussion and warnings in the infamous "Real Page Numbers for Reflowable Kindles" thread.
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#7  DaleDe 12-16-2019, 02:59 PM
Quote Tex2002ans



Yeah, I'm interested in seeing what sorts of footnotes the original book has.



This is completely incorrect.

Real Page Numbers (RPNs) in ebooks can still serve a useful purpose (especially for reference, navigation, and Accessibility). Latest in-depth "page numbers in ebooks" discussion was just last month:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...88#post3914488

and you can always look up these topics in your favorite search engine:

Code
"rpns" site:mobileread.com
"real page numbers" hitch site:mobileread.com
"real page numbers" tex2002ans site:mobileread.com
to pretty much find everything there is to know about them.



Sticking numbers smack dab in the middle of text will eventually get you Kindle Quality Notices (KQNs):

See all the discussion and warnings in the infamous "Real Page Numbers for Reflowable Kindles" thread.
You may also want to read our wiki Page numbers@Wiki »,

Dale
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#8  Hitch 12-16-2019, 03:10 PM
Quote DaleDe
You may also want to read our wiki Page numbers@Wiki »,

Dale
This is Dale's Wiki day! :-)

Hitch
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#9  DaleDe 12-16-2019, 03:22 PM
Quote Hitch
This is Dale's Wiki day! :-)

Hitch
Yup, It seems that people don't know that we do have a wiki that has lots of answers among the 1800 or so pages.

Dale
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#10  Tex2002ans 12-19-2019, 01:39 AM
Quote DaleDe
Yup, It seems that people don't know that we do have a wiki that has lots of answers among the 1800 or so pages.


lol yeah, I always forget to link to the Wiki articles.

I find them really helpful when I need a quick refresher on stuff like page-map + page-list + pageList.

I also use them as a springboard to relevant technical links in the EPUB standards (although since IPDF went down, a lot of those URLs are now dead/defunct, especially when pointing to older EPUB2 specs. Maybe those could be replaced with archive.org versions?).
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